At the request of a bored man
Prostitution should be legal. It's a woman's right to do whatever she wants with her body, and that includes sell it as a commodity if she so desires. The same goes for male prostitutes. Discuss.
Sunday, March 26, 2006
37 Comments:
It should only be legalized if making it illegal does more harm than good. (Like the War on Drugs.) Otherwise, keep it illegal. At this point, I do not have the information to tell.
odds are legalized prostitution would bring down STD's, murders, underage girls in the field, kidnapping, drug use(maybe), and other "bad things" that generally come with illegal prostitution. It would also save money from police not having to use man hours performing useless stings.
Also, current prostitution laws encourage violence aganist and exploitation of prostitutes by pimps. I'll bet a good deal of money on the fact that prostitutes are better off in Reno than in anywhere else in the country.
Also, there's really no point in making it illegal, unless you want to play "morality police."
though, is it really less "moral" then screwing around. You get paid for sex, but at the same time how many women(or men) only sleep with their partner because of the things they get, the money he has, the chance at a moving up a business ladder, etc. The fact that a piece of paper that has a guys picture on it that represents a value makes it illegal but not the other things is kinda messed up.
I love bacon and most other pork products, but "other white meat" lost me on that last sentence.
giving someone a dollar makes it illegal. Giving someone a car, house, food, job, etc is ok
Ah, now I gotcha. If you had specified that the piece of paper was green, I would probably have been less confused.
Didn't someone tell me just the other day to "use proper GRAMMER [sic]"? :-P
There was a good Onion article about trading "sex for security" a while ago -
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30017
But I agreed - prostitution would be better off legalized, for most of the reasons that everyone else has already put.
Actually, the Other White Meat doesn't have it exactly correct. Prostitution is the exchange of sex for anything of value - not just currency. There are "high class" prostitutes who trade sex for, say, nice clothes.
Now that does raise an interesting question about drawing the line between a gold-digger girlfriend (or boyfriend) and a high-class prostitute. That would be an interesting legal question for someone who had the time and inclination to research it. (i.e. not me).
And, partly for the sake of argument (but only partly), I'm going to disagree with Jeff about the whole "morality police" thing. I mean, this will come down to a fundamental disagreement about the nature and role of government, but here goes: my initial presumption would be keeping prostitution illegal. I don't like prostitution for the same reason I don't like pornography - it's degrading. And I'm not just throwing out a label with nothing to back it up. What I mean by "degrading" is that both pornography and prostitution encourage treatment of another human being as a means to an end....as a mere masturbatory tool. The prostitute or porn star is not seen as a full human being, but as a thing to be used. After being treated that way for a long while she (or he) will probably start to believe it. And that's tragic. Meanwhile, the customer of porn or prostitution will, ever-so-subtly, grow to see some people as less than human. It may only be in tiny amounts...not every such person will begin to see all other people as tools for their own pleasure. But I don't like going down that path. People have inherent value, dammit. We're all unique individuals, reflections of God's image, and possessing individual dignity. We should treat each other as such.
Now there are, of course, countervailing arguments. I can't support trying to stamp out porn because of the competing, overriding value of free speech. In our system of government, even degrading speech must not be censored. The whole point of free speech is that one must support the speech that one hates...or else the "freedom" is a sham. So I'd fight for the right of a pornographer to express himself/herself. But don't expect me to like it.
Similarly, the arguments expressed above about the bad stuff that results from banning prostitution may be enough to overcome my presumption to keeping it illegal. I mean, very similar arguments have long convinced me that - as bad as drug addiction is - the War on Drugs is worse.
By the way, the fact that no one on this blog has yet argued in favor of keeping prostitution illegal (aside from my "overcome the presumption" argument) says much about where we lie in the spectrum of American values. I imagine the vast majority of Americans would reflexively say "of course it should stay illegal."
And at last we have a discussion!
You make a very good point that both pornography and prostitution present people (usually women, though sometimes men) as pure "masturbatory tools", objects to be used. My counterargument is that the porn star or prostitute is completely aware of that fact and presenting themselves as an object as a means of earning income. There are of course a large number of psychological issues that come into play, but those shouldn't have any bearing on the law itself.
The effect of pornography and prostitution on its customers should not be the concern of the law: it is the person's choice to partake therein, and it should not be the government's job to protect anyone from themselves.
I'm not familiar with the history of the law against the world's oldest profession, but I'd imagine its motivation was in fact, as Jeff puts it, to "play morality police."
That's a collection of my immediate randomly-scattered thoughts. Maybe I'll write more later.
Can you read minds Ben?
As long as prostitution is kept illegal, and women are persecuted for acts which harm no one, prostitute women will be subject to brutality at the hands of misogynists and moralists -- they are, arguably, the same group. And when prostitutes are treated as second class citizens, and in extreme cases, as less than human, then all women who dare to step out of their social constructs will be labeled as whores and treated accordingly. For these reasons, the rights of all women are contingent upon the rights accorded to the most vulnerable women. - From Dr. Jocelyn Elders: March 1997 International Prostitution Conference highlights: Keynote speaker was Dr. Jocelyn Elders. Elders was surgeon general until President. Clinton fired her for supporting masturbation. Elders called for prostitution to be decriminalized. Dr. Elders has also said: "We say that [hookers] are selling their bodies, but how is that different from athletes? They're selling their bodies. Models? They're selling their bodies. Actors? They're selling their bodies."
thought that was interesting
Maybe models and atheletes are selling their bodies. Not sure I buy that for actors. They are selling their skills at acting.
Small, meaningless side point on my part.....
One might theorize that had Clinton supported masturbation more, he wouldn't have needed to get fellated under the desk of the Oval Office.
Um......
Yes, Other White Meat, I can read minds. The answer to your question is 42. No, not THAT question. Get your mind out of the gutter.
Silly.
Ben, I could never get behind the idea that the default state for any activity should be "illegal." It strikes me as far outside the realm of common sense to say that the burden of proof falls on those who would wish an activity to be legal.
That having been said, I think a lot of people say things like drugs, prostitution, etc. should be illegal simply because they seemingly always have been. While from an outside view it's absurd to have to prove that it's okay to legalize something, from a practical view this is what is necessary. Kudos to Ben for pointing that out, however inadvertently.
Ben, you've made a wonderful cultural argument against prostitution. But such an argument can never be mistaken for an argument as to why it should be illegal. Government has never been, and should never be, the arbiter of our cultural values. Sure, government should protect people from inequality, but government should also allow people to choose their own paths in life. As a result, the best anti-prostitution policy would be a policy fighting the underlying forces which push young women (and men) into prostitution against their will - i.e. poverty. (And those who choose to use sex as a path to get out of poverty should have every right to do so.) But activities should never be restricted only because some of us - indeed, most of us - find them immoral.
Also, I'm reminded of something Melanie said to me after she came back from a strip club. She told me that she thought the strippers were doing a great job exploiting the horniness of the men around them for money. So when it comes down to those who enter the sex trade as a matter of choice, who's really using/exploiting whom?
Also, I'm sure someone out there besides Ben thinks prostitution should be illegal. Your two cents are required.
Ben, why I asked if you were a mind reader was due to this comment " After being treated that way for a long while she (or he) will probably start to believe it. And that's tragic." Though you said "probably" you're trying to make a point by telling us what someone believes. You though have no experiance with this field do you? Your a virgin correct? Ever had a friend that was a stripper/hooker/porn star? If no then you have no idea what these people think and really have no right to guess on it. The reason for the virgin comment(and really, thats awsome man, good for you) is you don't know what it feels like in any way shape or form so you can't make a real guess on what it feels like for someone else.
(it wasn't really a big deal, but it works kinda the same way I'm for womens rights on abortion. I'm not a women, never can have children which means I will never be able to have a child grow in me, so I can not force someone to do something or go through something I haven't been through.)
Jeff, there are plenty of people out there who believe prostitution should remain illegal, I just doubt many of them read this blog.
how was outback, ya prick
Medium rare prime rib. I'm still drooling.
Mike - yeah, I'm just saying that a lot of them believe that way out of habit, rather than out of weighing the alternatives and deciding.
did you guys know prostitution is legal in Iran and Isreal. In Iran, you actually "marry" for the couple of hours you have sex.
Jeff. Not enough time to go into my hardly-complete and ever-evolving theories of government and human dignity....especially when I ultimately come to the same conclusion as y'all from a different place. Suffice to say that, practically every instance I can think of "purely moral" legislation is ineffective and backfires in too many ways. Prohibition and the War on Drugs come to mind. That's basically the argument I made a while back on Matt Novak's blog.
So, by the way, you were incorrect when you said I believe it should be illegal. I said that's my default...not my conclusion.
OWM. I know that people's self-image is shaped by what they are told and how they are treated. My fiancee - who's in counseling - is always telling me about these case studies of people who've been told this terrible stuff about themselves so much that they started to believe it. It's truly the rare individual who has such a sense of identity as to be totally immune to what they are told and how they are treated. And I still find the whole situation in the sex industry - legal or illegal - to be tragic.
OWM - really? That would be quite a loophole. What's your source?
well I know from people who were in the industry that most did it for the money and because they liked it. Though I'm sure you'll find people that happen to be exactly as you stated, that could be had with any job. "your worthless, you'll never be more then a fry cook at McD's"*slowly walks back to deepfryer*
http://www.sexwork.com/coalition/whatcountrieslegal.html
seems reliable enough(was used as a source from wikipedia but on the other hand you probably wouldn't use wikipedia as a source for a term paper) I'll try to find another source.
Oh, I don't deny the same thing could happen on any job. People are cruel to each other. But it still seems to me the sex industry is designed around that.
As for the virgin comment - I'm not saying sex itself is inherently degrading. I think it's beautiful and wonderful. It's how sex is used.
As for the source for the Iranian thing...I asked out of pure curiosity. Nothing more.
no commented needed on the Iranian thing, I would've asked too.
The virgin comment wasn't meant to say I believed you thought it was inherently degrading. I just meant you hadn't actually had sex, meaning you can't really understand what it feels like mind, body, and soul. So the thoughts of others on the subject could only be a guess on your part, no matter what you're told, studied, etc. Some people can seperate love and sex. Others can't. You won't really be able to undertand those feelings til you do it. Thats all.
these things really need a spell check and/or edit button
Only for you, pork boy. Only for you.
oink oink
so is 36 comments a record for ya
By a fair margin, yeah.
Post a Comment
<< Home